Saturday 12 June 2021

I'm done with Tunnels & Trolls

Update: I've turned off the comments for my own mental health. It's worth me noting that at no point have I said that Ken is racist, but I believe his thinking is harmful, especially for not addressing the comment.

This is really hard. Trollish Delver started as a blog celebrating T&T, a rules lite gonzo game that I adored. Since then I've published my own T&T stuff and amassed a sizeable collection of books. But I'm done.

I've been a fan and a acquaintance of Ken St Andre for almost a decade. I even thanked him in Romance of the Perilous Land for inspiring me to make games - which he absolutely did. But what I and many people saw on Twitter this week was inexcusable. 

A post was made by a POC, coming after the devastating murder of four Muslim people in London, Ontario, saying that it's not enough to not be racist - we must be actively anti-racist and hostile to racists.

I hope you'd agree this is a sensible stance.

So why Ken decided to go out of his way to respond with "why? What gives you the right to tell others how they must be" I have no idea. It was asinine and shows utter contempt for Muslims and people of colour. 




Rightly he got a tonne of flack for it but has yet to respond to any of it or show any sort of introspection. This is a ludicrous and dangerous mindset and if it's any indication as to who he is then I want nothing to do with him. 

I understand that T&T is more than just Ken, but it's his creation and has his DNA all over it. I'll be taking my T&T adventures down from sale. 

We must all stand against racism in all its forms and that involves being hostile to racists. It's not difficult to understand. Some might see this as an overreaction, which it isn't - this is exactly how important inclusivity in gaming and life is. So fuck my favourite game.










35 comments:

  1. I stand with you on this respect and response. I, like many others are both outraged and disappointed with Ken's reply.

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  2. I didn't have Ken for someone oblivious to these issues. I mean, are you sure this is not just a slip? We're living in a society that doesn't allow taking a bad step. Did he acknowledge his words and retracted from them?

    I think that, what I really want to say is "are you going to severe your relationship with T&T after so many years just because someone said a stupid thing?".

    Maybe it's just me, as see myself an iconoclast; but I think we should sever our ties to the rpg "creators", as many games, systems, settings, etc., are bigger than these people, whether they fight for everyone's rights (and I mean everyone, not just today's trend) or not. I don't vogue for bleaching anything, as a consumer I have a wider range of tools at my disposal to deal with people like abusers, racists, homophobics, etc. than you as a designer, but where is the line? When has someone stepped too far into the "you're horrible" territory as to sever ties with him?


    I, honestly, would like to see more about T&T coming from you, but if you've made up your mind, then that's the way it is.

    P.S.: I've feel compelled to answer to your post, Scott, as I find you an interesting person, coherent and reasonable, which I value these days more than many other traits. I've been reading you for a long time but my English is not as good as to comment with regularity. I have, as you've probably noticed, severe issues with the English language, I can only hope I did a good job conveying my ideas.

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    1. As Scott mentioned in this post, Ken has not responded to any questions or criticism. If he were to do so, I imagine that could lead many to reevaluate how to best respond. But we are not obligated to give unlimited time and leeway to people who say or do hurtful things.

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  3. Instead of walking away, why not engage with Ken and talk him round? The refusal to engage in debate and discussion will do we of the left no good. IMHO.

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    1. You incorrectly assume nobody has already done this.

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  4. After all, telling someone how to believe is pretty damned oppressive. Much better to win people over.

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    1. No. With all due respect, I strongly recommend doing some reading on oppression. When a white man says “who are you to tell me I must oppose racism,” calling him out on it is not “oppression.” Telling people with systemic, historically established power things they don’t want to hear is not oppression. Rather, a white man demanding of a person of color “you can’t tell me what to do!”, in the context of explaining why we must actively fight racism, is one symptom of an entire system of oppression.

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    2. Assuming all white people to bare responsibility for things they didn't do, and to assume they're all oppressive, is pretty goddamn racist and oppresive.

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    3. Nobody argued anything like what you’re saying. Go google “systemic oppression” or troll elsewhere, please.

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    4. "Whatever else "troll" might mean, "Anyone who disagrees with me" cannot be a useful definition." - Richard Dawkins

      I don't know if you've been living under a rock, but that is what's said, and what you're supporting by demanding people act in the way you want and perform the ritual obeisances the way you want. Invoking systemic oppression only supports my argument, because it's a subjective and unfalsifiable argument (at least unfalsifiable to the faithful). It is the idea, at its heart, that even when a system doesn't include racism and nobody involved is racist, it can still be racist.

      uwotm8?

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  5. I support you wholeheartedly. Gaming needs more like you.

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  6. 100% support your decision Scott. People tried to engage with Ken to make sure we didn't misinterpret Ken's comment and Ken has chosen silence. That's not acceptable. This isn't a "cancel culture" pile on, this is you voting where to spend your attention, resources, and time and I respect for you being transparent about your values.

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    1. It is a cancel culture pile-on. This deluded blogger is trying to incite the woke mob for internet back-pats and shining his good guy badge. To me, THAT is unacceptable.

      Gamers will not tolerate the SJW activism that pretends to be "inclusion", "diversity", and "equality".

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  7. It's very sad to be put in such a position. That this has complexities is not enough to stand to one side; nor is the tendency towards forgiveness. Well done, Scott. Let's keep moving towards that higher ground.

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  8. You don't even know the news from London, Ontario and how it's being spun. The guy told his friends several days before that he had trouble with his steering! The national news is trying very hard to hide that fact so they can cry racist (against a religion, which is not a race? A religion which says you literally have to believe Muhammad cut the Moon in half with his sword?)
    The London Free Press covered a mention of mechanical difficulty in the vehicle and how that guy wasn't racist, but you guys talk like Maoists who also had "a variety of tools" to use against people. And when the sober facts come out in a documented courtroom, I'm sure the news media will spin it again or the mitigation of the guy's sentence to simple manslaughter will be called "unfair" so that people can riot and scream some more.
    Snap out of it, and don't go with the flow of media trying to control the narrative and lie about what goes on in a small town.
    https://lfpress.com/news/local-news/who-is-nathaniel-veltman-accused-in-alleged-london-hate-killings

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  9. ..By the way, WE GAMERS were once affected by the national news "running over" local stories. "60 Minutes" in 1985 did a scare-piece against D&D, hosted by Ed Bradley. The story claimed 2 brothers in Colorado made a suicide-pact and killed themselves with a gun because of the game. (Huh? Why not a broadsword instead of an out-of-period weapon?) 3 days later, the local press said the family resented that implication because the older boy was facing sentencing in an auto-theft case, and the younger boy was close to the point of "not being able to live without him". But 60 Minutes of course never retracted the story. Suppose your son dies in an auto accident, but a national news outlet says he died in a drug-fuelled shootout as a member of a Satanic gay sex drug-cult? They can say anything they want, nationally. Do you not want the actual straight facts to come out about this other car-accident, and not to be hijacked for someone's agenda? You gamers had a bad, undeserved rep for suicides, don't gleefully pile on to give someone else an undeserved rep, if the pickup truck truly only had a mechanical problem.

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    1. I think it's important to note that the thing Ken is responding to here is the statement that London, ON should be "anti-racist." The facts of the news story are secondary to that statement. Someone said that cities should be not just not-racist, but actively anti-racist. Ken took issue with the idea that anyone would suggest that others should be anti-racist. "What gives you the right to tell anyone how they must be?" doesn't take issue with whether or not these murders were motivated by racism; it just objects to that idea that a municipal government should take a clear stand against racism. How could anyone object to anti-racism? Wait, don't answer that.

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    2. What DOES give him, or anyone, the right to control others? Particularly when it's a knee-jerk reaction to a case that was built up as a media narrative, not real at all? Admit fallibility, admit being wrong. No more knee-jerk programs that are in reaction to unreal things. Fight the real anti-Muslim "racism" in Myanmar where the Rohingya are being chased out.
      This case in London, Ont. is a bust, unless you blindly subscribe to the liberal idea that Racism = Prejudice + Power Steering...

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  10. T&T was a big part of my childhood, but in the many years since I've learned not to expect the appropriate level of introspection on this one.

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  11. Had much longer, equally supportive post, email. Your peeps said it all, Scott. I just feel bad for those affected by the collateral damage of Ken's caring so little about the collateral damage to those who've given to the brand, the art, and most importantly the community. (And off to go go support Freels and Liz's Patreon now...) . Pax. Hop.

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  12. I want gaming to be more inclusive... so, I'm going to exclude my favorite game, its author, and everyone who doesn't agree with my radical ideology. Ok, thanks for the amusement!

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    1. I'm doing what I believe is right. I'm not telling anyone else what to do.

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    2. But you can choose to not play any game for any reason, and avoid any author for any reason, and disagree with anyone who supports those ideas without being exclusive. As Scott has already said, he's not telling anyone else what to do. Just what he feels he needs to do based on what he's seen.

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  13. Of course racism is a scourge. It is supremely offensive.

    Yet, the mind control attitude of cancel culture is equally as much a scourge and offensive.

    When people tell me I have to not follow someone I ignore it. I have my reasons for following people I may not even agree with or like, because I am curious about why they think the way they do. I am also curious to know if we can find common ground, or not.

    Ken is simply saying that we can't give up our individual freedom to act and think as we please. As a devout leftist, Freedom of Thought and Speech is paramount. I see this as a valuable right.

    If you read my response and somehow think I am not pro equality merely because I disagree with cancel culture, then feel free to block me.

    My question is: How many of you people who posted a BLM tag on your profiles actually donated money to BLM? I did.

    I think John Cleese does a good job of explaining how many of us feel in this regard: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAK0KXEpF8U

    Ken's comment is more nuanced and subtle than the reaction to his comment of: If you do not do as I do then you are a racist.

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    1. I'm not curtailing Ken's freedom of speech, I'm disagreeing with him. This is how I'm exercising my own freedom of thought and speech.

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    2. Racism is offensive? Racism has killed people. 'Cancel culture' has not.

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    3. What about when Zoe Quinn k8lled a man?
      https://youtu.be/W9vjdnbddd4

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    4. What about when Zoe Quinn k8lled a man?
      https://youtu.be/W9vjdnbddd4

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  14. Thanks for this, Scott. It's really unfortunate that Ken has made this necessary, but thank you for doing what you see as necessary.

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  16. Where dose making a stand stop and cancel culture begin? Might be a big subject to raise here.

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  17. So... Ken... who is not rascist... dosent want to join your cult... so you want to force people to join your cult or be canceled... go it.

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